U name it

Saturday, April 08, 2006

Un Veiled: Thru My Eyes

This one is inspired by Keshi’s last post, ‘whispers of veil’ rather by the comments left there, I could have had my say in the comments there but then hardly any one else would have read that. I think the people in their comments went way beyond the ambit of the post. Should women be forced to wear a veil….nooooo but it did not end there. Some comments where sensible, intelligent and some based on ignorance, disgusting, the kind of people whoz views are limited and blinded by western media.

Do actions of a small minority necessarily represent Islam…absolutely not. The problem discussed isn’t even so wide spread, yes it does happen in some middle east countries but hardly beyond that. Why only the veil, there are so many ills in those countries, the Monarchies would have long gone too, but for the continued support of the US, which works overtime to keep its Oil needs secure, so much for freedom and democracy.

Suddenly people are taking so much interest into what happens within Islam and a lot focusing around women. Give us a break, a big majority of them are happy by there condition. They are not in bondage, as they are all thought to be in, many of them are working and lead respectable lives. There are few women from other religions who are happily married in our family, who have accepted Islam and I have never heard anyone complain. Not to say that there are no problems in the society but they have nothing to do with religion, I think the Hindu women face a lot of problems too. Its more due to the situations people are in, the kind of environment in which we exist.

How about West, is everything really as good as it is made out to be, I don’t think so, not according to my standards, I think in lot of ways there condition is far worse than women in India. I don’t know how people see wife bashing, which is so widespread, teen sex, unwed mothers. How many in India would not be bothered if there teen sister/daughter was sleeping around, how many would not be jolted if there 16 yr old came and said mom I am pregnant. Last night happened to be watching Trends(fashion channel), walks in this Model in a bikini, un straps the bra I thought she wud just hold it there but she flung the bra on the ramp and did a lil jig is that the right thing, may be for her but not for me. The gal (in USA) who asked me if I would come to a nude party by the pool, where is it going to end??? The two extremes, the veil and the bare all, now what is right and what isn’t who decides???

As far as treatment of women within Islam, it was the first religion which came down heavily on child infanticide, which was rampant during those days, especially when the child was a girl. Somehow it still persists, you can read my post ‘mummy I want to live’. The Prophet himself married a widow, something which was a big taboo even in India, as late as last century and in some places even now they aren’t respected, watch Deepa Mehta’s film ‘Water’.

Some one talked about Modernism, for him some how wearing skimpy clothes is kind of being Modern, how ridiculous. Does wearing a bikini make a gal more modern than one wearing a traditional dress. I think modernism is much more than that. I consider my Grandfather a truly Modern man, though he was very religious, but he recognized the need for good education, he sent his children to school. In a place/community where no one had ever gone to one, no one gave a shit to education, but he sent his children to a boarding school, people laughed at him, ridiculed him but now every one admits to how he changed lives of people of that town and almost every kid goes to a school.

Clothes, wear whatever you are comfortable with, but why impose your likes/dislikes on to others, why judge people by your standards. People are different and have different values, and they should be respected by others. The society in India for example, isn’t mature enough to allow people to do whatever they want. So people have to follow certain rules of the society they live in. More over in different parts the line is at different places. Wear a short skirt in Mumbai or Delhi and one may not raise too many eyebrows, but come to a small town in your short skirt and you will become like a Pied Piper, with droves of people looking at those beautiful legs, go to a village and wear a bikini, within minutes the entire population would be there……..so most people have to play according to the rules irrespective of their religious beliefs. Yes people rebel every now and then, Protima Bedi running naked on the beach but these are just a handful of people.

So people live according to their culture, their customs, their religion and no one should pass sweeping judgments on one another. I don’t think there is one right path for everyone, just let people choose the path they want, lets respect people for what they are, instead of trying to mould them the way we want them to be.

49 Comments:

  • Good that u brought up this issue specially after angel(sebia) is really upset with the post and the comments in that.

    Now since i also commented on that post, so lets read it one more time...here it is

    ****I don't think hijab was meant for all women, its been simply used for centuries maybe coz some of the fanatics had the fear that some other fellow jack like him might take advantage of his beautiful dame like he does all the time in the society.****

    I know i m not as literate and wise like everyone out here but i was informed by some of my muslim colleagues that hijab was introduced long back for the females who were dancers or sex workers during that time and they were asked to put on the hijab so that the other females in the society dont see them. And later on some fanatics decided to make it compulsary for everyone....by no means my comments were meant to thrash any religion or its belief, it was absolutely targeted on that small section of fanatics. Yet if my comment is considered as bias and intolerant towards any specific religion, then i m sorry but its my opinion and i m entitled for it and i dont take a single word back from it.
    As far as my thoughts about women and their concerns, i hv made it pretty clear from time to time on my lj and moreover its what i actually think means more rather than sharing it and taking opinions or even get applauded out here.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:21 PM  

  • i wud just say its all in the mind ..

    one cant impose others wat to do n wat not .. we r quite matured enuf to think ... but i wud say dont copy others ... n have ur own identity
    wateva u wear or they way 1 dresses ...

    its upto one own concious ...

    chal bye have a nice weekend ...
    :)

    By Blogger uttara, at 7:59 AM  

  • All right,

    '' Here is what I said..
    The origins of Hijab is pre Islamic. Basically, prostitutes used to wear it, so they would not tempt good men, though it must be pointed out that if a man is tempted by the sight of a prostitute, he is not that good anymore.!

    Hijab was subsequently hijacked by Islamic fanatics, and now it is more of a political weapon to suppress women than anything else.

    It has really very little to do with Islam as a religion. Unfortunately, Islam has been reduced to size of beard and Hijab and other such holy crap and the original message has been mostly forgotten''

    I stand by every word I said, unless you can offer me sources which prove me wrong. If this has hurt someone, then I am not rally sorry.

    tc

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:59 AM  

  • Sothpaw & Confused:

    May have happend in the pre Islamic times..but the religion requires that a woman cover her body when she steps out.....its not work of some fanatic...some women do it others don't but i fail to understand the fuss about the whole thing..if an individual decides to dress up in a certain manner why shud any one else be bothered.....
    what happens is the more the outside interference he more ppl tend to shut themselves up.....
    2 generations back every single woman in our family used a veil...by next may be only 10% and now not a single uses veil.....so let ppl take there own course.....
    ..if the ppl forcing women to cover up are wrong so are the ppl tht oppose it...the legislation in France against head scarves....the hue n cry over Sikh Turban for what? next they will ban women using Sindoor and Bindi's......


    Uttara:

    i agree with you fully....hope u had a nice weekend....tcc byee

    By Blogger Jackal, at 12:11 PM  

  • Keshi has always been a dickhead in the way she writes her posts...she writes them for the pure sake of reaching 100 comments. She thinks she is being thought-provoking but rather she comes across as an ignorant fool who is desperately seeking to hold her ground in the blogworld.

    A few commenters on her blog like Ishita and burf wrote such disgusting, intolerant,racist comments that I feel ashamed to call them my friends.

    This is my comment on Ishita's blog which she may not publish:

    I was read your comment about muslim women on keshi's blog and decided that I needed to answer you.

    Muslim women are proud of their hijab. There are women who might not be hardcore muslims and not wear a Hijab but still believe in the values of their religion. Why are other women from different religions so quick to pass judgment about women from other cultures? Have your or Keshi personally done a poll on Muslim women to find out their views of their own tradition?

    Keshi has always like the wrong kind of attention and does not really care if the other people reading it might be hurt. It is not surprise that she forgot that one of her good friends is Sebia who happens to be a muslim.

    It would be nice if you are not influenced by popular views of biased people like Keshi and keep in mind that though this is the net, people do have feelings and feel hurt by reading such posts and comments.

    Here is Sebia's response to Keshi's thoughtless and hurtful post...

    http://sebia.blogspot.com/


    Eternal Bliss
    Friday, April 07, 2006
    PAINFUL PROPAGANDA


    I am not the kind of a person, who indulges in to baseless arguments and games of refutations just to prove something or get her kicks outta sheer rush of adrenaline caused by these baseless arguements...Specially I don’t find virtuality as a place to point fingers at others or make fun of others religious beliefs..but I felt a strange kina sadness enveloping me after reading a very good friends blog.i was seriously shocked,cuz I always thought of u as a person with greater tolerance level 2wards others beliefs..Keshi..I would have seriously appreciated it, if u asked me or even dewdy before writing such a baseless thing...And I felt more sick when people used that place of yours to vent there anger and hatred against Muslims in such a way, and I felt more hurt when all those friends whom I always considered as UNBIASED and UNPREJUDICED. With loads of religious narcissism..
    U said u don’t know anybody living in Middle East. Strange I live there. and I am a Muslim, and I thought we were friends, and yeah I don’t wear HIJAB,and I drive and I have all kina fun whatever way I want 2..if I don’t go to dance parties, its not because of some fear of LASHES, but cuz its my own choice I don’t feel comfrtable,and if I don’t wear minni skirts or don’t roam around in some flimsy stuff its my own choice,friends of mine wear short skirts and such stuff and they want to cuz they like to
    …Yes there are still some hard liners...Like in saudia.they are like that I do admit but tell me in which society there are no finatics? My granny was a catholic until her last days...and trust me she was much more rigid and fanatic in some issues then any hardliner Muslim can be...guess u did not bother to check Dubai, behrain, or even Oman etc...Don’t try 2 go for half-truth. Try to dig the full truth before making a mockery of some religious issue
    And wearing a hijab, or not wearing it, it is about somebody’s religion and I don’t think anybody got any right to question anybody’s beliefs, right or wrong. Religion is something very personal; true I condemn fanatics like TALIBAN, and Saudis. However, they are not the whole Islam...
    Remember .with freedom comes great responsibility can’t exercise your freedom when it can cause so much anguish to others, I was reading the comments on that post and it left such bad taste in ones mouth. There was a girl who was poking fun on PROPHET (PBUH)...is it some kinna religious secularism people were experiencing?
    WHERE ARE THE HUMAN AND CIVIL OR RELIGIOUS rights then?
    And for ur kind information, in true spirit of Islam, females are more encouraged to study and work, and if woman folk are asked to cover there heads, men are also asked to lower there eyes in respect of a woman, and here men are more properly clad then females..
    And its like if u have 2 iron bars wire 1 and pass electric current, it will become a magnet and hence will attract the opposite bar, so as the woman and man,.
    Those hardliners whoever said this, I CONDEMN them. And at the same time I condemn people who question others religious faiths and make fun of them to deliberately hurt or incite there religious feelings, w.t knowing the full truth...
    I am not opening comments on this post, cuz I do not want people to come and say things about Islam and religion, already enough trashing is done. I felt so bad that’s why keshi answering u here, I didn’t want to be the part of that abusive crowd.
    I RESPECT ALL RELIGIONS AND EXPECT OTHERS TO RESPECT MINE.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:01 PM  

  • when u hv specifically brought up the topic then there is no place for may haves....
    by all fair means the comment was not on the religion, but on a specific section of it, if opposing that is a crime, then u wud say the ppl who hv been opposing the dowry system in India r all fools either they shud accept it or just sit back and enjoy the show.....common jackal!!!!sometimes being neutral is the biggest crime we commit to out own society.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:58 PM  

  • ***Forget muslim girls, every religion, every community rips apart a woman's pride and respect from time to time. The mindset needs to be changed.***



    ***Donkeys better than wives

    A textbook used at schools in Rajasthan compares housewives to donkeys, and suggests the animals make better companions as they complain less and are more loyal to their "masters," TOI reported Tuesday.

    "A donkey is like a housewife ... In fact, the donkey is a shade better, for while the housewife may sometimes complain and walk off to her parents' home, you'll never catch the donkey being disloyal to his master," the newspaper reported, quoting a Hindi-language primer meant for 14-year-olds.

    The book was approved by the state's Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party government but has sparked protests from the party's women's wing.

    State education officials in Rajasthan, a western state known for its conservative attitude toward women, said people should not be upset by the comparison, the paper said.

    "The comparison was made in good humor," state education official A.R. Khan was quoted as saying. "However, protests have been taken note of and the board is in the process of removing it (the reference)."
    so.....****

    These were my comments there, so you would still suggest not to oppose those things just coz u think opposing believes is not appropriate. I don't regret a bit about my own comments unless you offer me something reasonable which i can say is absolutely impossible.

    By Blogger Sunita, at 7:43 PM  

  • Jackal its great to bring ur point of view on this. But in my post I didnt intend to demean any religion or belief..I have stated that at the beginning of the post. My intention was to convey the message that women should be able to wear whatever they want...and live a life they want. I know that alot of muslim women wear the veil to their satisfaction but I was highlighting abt women who get beaten and killed for not following certain rules...na it doesnt happen only in the middle east...if u come to Aus, alot of muslim girls wear the hijab...and truly I cant say they wear it for what it represents...cos they do smoke, wear very revelaing clothes etc with a ahijab on their head...is this what it's intended to be?

    Besides if they do infact want to wear it, there is no bar for it here in Australia. But the hard-line islamics here are making a mockery of the Wetern women...is that fair to be in their country and make fun of what Aussie women wear? It has become a real problem here in Aus recently. And the many rapes, riots and racism is on the rise becos of this. I say they can practice what they want without interfering with other ppl'c cultures...if not they go back to their countries.

    No one's praising naked or bikini-clad women. And no one's demeanining the hijab. Do whatever u like without violating human rights and without making fun of other ppl's lifestyles...and that's what I intended to conver thru my post. As for the comments we received, I cant help that..just like u said, there r a great variety of different ppl with a great variety of different beliefs...and we must respect that too.

    Keshi.

    By Blogger Keshi, at 8:12 PM  

  • And Sebz, if u got hurt by it, Im sorry - but I cant think why u wud get hurt abt it cos I was talking abt the fanatic muslim men who beat up muslim women who dun wear the hijab. I believ u have nothing to do with this situation. However I only got to know that u were hurt by South's comment...if u read my blog, why couldnt u leave a comment in my blog Sebz?

    Anyways I wont and cant take any of my words back...cos I said what I honestly felt abt it based on what has been happening here in Aus recently and also ard the world...and I know in my heart that I didnt say anythign against muslims...only against the fanatic men who punish women for not wearing them and going by their rules.


    Keshi.

    By Blogger Keshi, at 8:19 PM  

  • And I so agree with South...we cant sit back and 'accept' a law that violates women just cos it's someone's belief, even tho it happens only in few parts of the world? can we Jackal?

    Keshi.

    By Blogger Keshi, at 8:23 PM  

  • And Jackal, this was part of ur comment in my post:

    **.like fasting in ramzan etc but then those guys are big idiots.....a lot of gals dont wear nythig underneath there veil in those countries and all those sheiks the so called defenders of faith..come night are they are in Paris doing all those things which they continuosly preach againts during the day..........

    And that's exactly what I wanted to question in my post.

    Keshi.

    By Blogger Keshi, at 8:26 PM  

  • I really dunno how to express this..but i feel sorry for all the muslim women out there who are oppressed...all those ladies who live in fear as polygamy is legal...all those ladies who are forced to wear the headscarve by their hubby's and bf's to show who is in control..by peer pressure...i feel sorry for them

    but thank god, i dont think the malaysian muslim women are that oppressed...the middle eastern ones face more..

    By Blogger Praveen R., at 9:25 PM  

  • hmmm .....

    looks like the comments really pissed u off ...

    am too tired to talk abt religion now .. everywhere , i keep hearing only abt that ....

    By Blogger ~*. D E E P A .* ~, at 10:29 PM  

  • keshi dont be stupid.You didnot research enough and cared to take someone's opinion.You have no right to pass judgement on someone else with half-cooked knowledge.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:33 PM  

  • i totally agree wid your view point
    Keshi the Sri Lankan turned aussie has lived too long in Austrayalaya


    the law and order situation in India and Sri Lanka is bad,
    if not non-existent

    the streets in the Gulf are a lott safer

    law and order and the justice delivery system in India has collapsed

    By Blogger Jim, at 10:56 PM  

  • Southie,

    Weel said, we cant be neutral!

    @Jackal,

    I am completely agree that if someone wears Hijab of her own choice, I have no problems with it..but does everyone who do that? Anyways, I think I will put up a post about it...

    @Anony,

    Juss one quick point, why dont you post in your real name instead of hiding behind an anonymous tag?

    If you are so all knowing..please come forward.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:46 PM  

  • The truth is out there...we cant deny it :)

    keshi.

    By Blogger Keshi, at 12:12 AM  

  • oh maa...i c anonymous is takin up d case very strongly...well:)..i've stated my case in my post which m sure u (jack) will comment on:)...and honestly i wish ppl wld understand that every religion has it's flaws...or shud i say...flaws in the way ppl interpret it???...??

    I would like to make it clear that I am against any kind of irrational belief which subjugates women...be it in Islam, My own religion "hinduism"...in my hubby's faith "christainity"...or any other faith!

    And Anonymous sad to say chose not to latch on to the fact that i also criticised "hinduism"!!!!

    *sigh*...such a pity he/she has the attitude of a horse wid blinders!...anyway i do wish anon wld not hide behind dis veil of anonymity...be proud of ur belief even if there are people like me who do not fear to question irrationality!....

    and jack...thanks for providing a diff perspective to a debate which again i feel is something that needs to be discussed...for only then will we learn...

    By Blogger ishipishi, at 2:18 AM  

  • blah blah blah


    you people have no lives whatsoever....married woman blog coz their life seems pretty boring...keshi has no life beyond the internet...she lives, breathes and eats up cyberspace...

    I would not want to be associated with the bunch of you even with a fake id!


    It is best to come here once in a while and see how you people regurgitate the same shit to gain attention...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:39 AM  

  • *sigh*...blogging is not to win over frenz...or a forum for "u scratch my back n i'll scratch urs"...we're all here to write about wat we feel...wat we want to express...

    u do wat u have to...i do wat i have to...

    why get personal @ anon???

    u started this whole "keshi is insensitive" campaign...and u know urself just how personal u are getting with it...why must u who is alll sooo sensitive about one blogger in particular...get so insensitive to others???...

    anyway...each one to their own...

    I've answered ur comment in my blog...and u've left ur reply to that again...and lemme tell u...just one thing...this whole thing instead of being a debate on religion and women...seems to be becoming about individual bloggers...in this case u seem to be building a case of "sebia" vs "keshi"...etc etc...

    and i for one don't want to be dragged into this...even if i'm just bored housewife wid a whole lot of time in hand!:-)...lolz..that had me smiling here...coz this bored housewife would rather write about my son...and stick to my feel good posts:)...!

    my serious posts are limited to issues related to women and any biases against them!

    wld u say anon that after my reply to ur comment...that ppl from all religions wld call me insensitive??? or are u going to stick to Islam and sebia being hurt?

    and sebia...in all this...u seem to be a more rational and emotionally sensitive person than anon here...y do u let others come and drag ppl into something that shud be sorted out between keshi and urself...ur frenship can't be so fickle that u cannot get past this clear misunderstanding...

    and jack...sorry all dis is bein vented out here in ur space...but m hoping u will stick to ur rational belief too and not let ppl make this into a personal war among bloggers...

    By Blogger ishipishi, at 8:54 AM  

  • I fully agree with you that wearing modern dresses and going to parties does not make you mordern. But at the same time being covered from head to toe does not make you modest either, especially if you have covered yourself up cos your society demands that from you.

    By Blogger Suji, at 9:00 AM  

  • freedom of speech means comment moderation

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:48 AM  

  • Anon:

    yes it would have been nice if more Muslim women/gals had a say on this one, to know their mind. Even though being a Muslim I have never come across the problem except for a place like Saudi Arabia. Suddenly it seems tht every single Muslim woman needs help.. freedom from bondage.



    Southpaw:

    ‘no place for may haves....’ tht was just to part relating to Hijab in Pre Islamic era…which this topic isn’t bothered…..i mean hijab isn’t reserved for Muslim if some ppl used it before or choose to do so now ..so be it……
    ..its not my intention to pull down every one who left a comment there….yes some of those ppl ….u cud see wht there intentions where……we can have a nice discussion abt nything…”with good intent and spirit” but if any one uses tht chance for bashing ppl’s beliefs/religion it isn’t the same………yes there are lot of things which I find disgusting in our country but I see them as human/social problems and not an opportunity throw stones.



    Sunita:

    Relax I already said ……..
    ‘Some comments where sensible, intelligent and some based on ignorance, disgusting,..’ I have absolutely nothing against what u said….ur right there are problems for every one…women for all religion and I think in many ways the problems of Hindu and Muslim women are more or less the same at least in India……tcc

    By Blogger Jackal, at 12:22 PM  

  • Keshi:

    ‘But in my post I didnt intend to demean any religion or belief..’ I never said tht in fact I left a comment myself…….and had gone back to post another but the kind of things I read there just put me off….it wasn’t like any discussion .. some of it in bad taste….
    If some idiots are creating problem in Australia they shud be thrown out, it as simple as that………
    Any one forcing women to wear the hijab or any thing else is wrong…….but u now that kind of problem only exists in Saudi Arabia or may be Afghanistan but I don’t think it is tht big a problem, though the western media wud luv to make u believe otherwise, I remember before the Afghan war there was this single video clip of a man beating this woman with a stick was repeatedly shown 100’s of time, as if that was the only thing that Afghan men….. did was beating women …
    In Saudi Arabia almost everything is wrong in that country….no rights nothing…the worse kind of government one can have, much worse that Saddam’s Iraq……….people want to get rid of the Government but they can’t since USA doesn’t want it that way. It suits US to have that puppet regime in Power. That’s a big source of anger for Muslim of that region, against the Americans, that was why so many of those ppl involved in 9/11 belonged to Saudi.

    The women are expected to cover up to protect them frm the evil men……that is all about the veil…not because the women are bad but because the environment they live in …..are societies free and safe enuf that women can go out at times and in clothes of their choosing ..i don’t think so….i think the world over women are at risk of being raped and molested. Somewhere the truth is also that the kind of clothes one wears the place and the time everything decides who would be a victim or not. For example in Delhi I feel the recent upsurge in rape cases is some where linked to fast changing lifestyle of women. Wearing revealing clothes, going out late for fun and work. I am not in any saying that those gals are responsible I just want to drill the fact that we live among the wolves so if one is cautious what’s the harm.

    By Blogger Jackal, at 12:23 PM  

  • Praveen:

    Indeed its sad when there is any oppression irrespective of sex/religion etc. Polgamy is legal..but the religion aslo lays down very specific conditions for one going for such a marriage..conditions which are very difficult to fulfill.....if a person has marries more than once and doesn't fulfill the conditions...its un Islamic....not acc to the religion.....


    Deepa:

    Hehe don’t run…….join the party……..


    confused:

    yes plzz help if u find one in distress i wud come too..will look fwd to ur post.....


    Ishita:
    'flaws in the way ppl interpret it?' tht's truely a big problem...for one the Holy Koran has been written once and not a single word can be changed or added .....what i feel it has left broad gudelines which have to be applied to different situations.....in the background is the expectation that it will be for the good......but if ppl find ways to suit there needs then the religion cannot be questioned but those ppl.........
    ..the veil wasn't there beacuse the women where/are bad but because the society was bad.....it was to protect the women not for anything else.........
    i dont know how many are forced into but lot of them wear it since they believe in religion....
    ..drinking is banned..and i dont drink.....shall i claim i am being oppressed....no if i have faith in something then i shud follow tht..isn't it??

    By Blogger Jackal, at 12:41 PM  

  • Ishita:

    'hoping u will stick to ur rational belief too and not let ppl make this into a personal war among bloggers...'
    ...thigs like these can't change me....i have very firm faith in my belief.....tht's why i cud bring this post....i dont care what ppl think of me after this but i know what i am all about so........
    as far as war among bloggers..i can hope tht ppl dont get too personal...but i can't do anything abt the comments.....

    By Blogger Jackal, at 12:49 PM  

  • saby:

    yeah tht's another problem..first let the envirionment be so friendly tht u wear anything u want too....go out where u want too....at any time u chose.....


    Suji:

    i dont think veil is there to tell tht are modest...its there to hide one frm the wicked world we live in......

    By Blogger Jackal, at 12:54 PM  

  • Why do we get all touchy about this?

    Do you believe any muslim or a hindu can have a reasonable conversation on religion without it sounding like some sorta propoganda?

    Once of the reasons we have so many problems is we are not willing to talk about it. See you in 1000 years under the same cloud of distrust.

    -anon

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:57 PM  

  • hey i found your post to be quite touchy but i hope you realize people who havn't studied a religion wont know the real meaning behind actions that people of that faith carry out...

    I know you might have been a lil hurt/pissed what ever you wanna call it about people's comments who dont seem to understand it... but arguing or sounding hard will make it worse...

    take care... nice blog u got there..

    smz

    By Blogger TakeOnLife, at 2:31 PM  

  • funny that keshi has written about Indian men and their personality which was stereotyped by her and now the post on muslims....aren't we lacking a post on sri-lankans are treated around the world today?

    Would love to see a post on that, Keshi....unbiased ofcourse and let us all voice our opinions on Sri Lankans ;)

    Anonymous OFCOURSE!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:38 PM  

  • This doesnt seem to be a debate abt womens' rights anymore, it seems to be that poor loser Anonymous's on-going campaign against Keshi...lol!

    Anony u really really need a life man...how many more years u r going to torture urself from this Keshi who has got u on ur toes and reading all her posts daily...yeah the one u call dumb and stupid? U still read her dun u? :)

    Ish dun be fooled by this Anonymous person..he tried for years to abuse me but failed each time...tried so many poor tricks but failed sadly. Even cloned my Id. Cos he cant show his face u see. He's one of Seb's good friends. LOL! And now I see that he's a dog that survives on left-over scraps of food that falls from the table. So let him have that lowest form of life that God has given him...surviving on left-overs from others :)


    Thanks Ish for ur support and thanks everyone else who believed in what I said. And for those who didnt agree, lets just agree to disagree without feeling upset with each other.

    Jackal...it's ok that it seems u have changed ur opinion from what u stated first in that post of mine...what d u say abt Sebzz not allowing comments there? :)
    Anyways life still goes on for me...

    TC,
    Keshi.

    By Blogger Keshi, at 6:49 PM  

  • jackal ..

    new posssssstttttttttyyyyyyy

    loll

    tc

    By Blogger uttara, at 8:24 PM  

  • I read all the diff blogs regerring to tbis issue under discussion and here are some thoughts:

    Jackal, You say that one does not need to pass a judgement on another's religion...true...but whenever a discussion like this starts why is it assumed that its an attack on another's religion??

    Why is it that when you have to defend islam, you have to point out all that is not right with hinduism??
    two wrongs do not make a right!
    The purpose is not to demean each other's faith..all of them have their own dirt...

    So if the question here is of the veil, then lets look at it objectively as a practice without attaching "Islam" or "hinduism" to it...I think the point that many were trying to raise was that "forcing" anyone to dress in a certain way is against human rights, It does not mean that the implication is that all women are forced/do it against their will or that Islam is the culprit!! Please do not look at it as a personal attack because if we start fighting on religions..it will only lead to dead ends...

    I will share this with yoy, very recently a friend of mine converted to islam because she found the teachings in the Quran worth practicing. I was very surprised considering she is avery modern woman! I asjed her if she would wear the burkha...and she said no, the quran does not ask women to wear te burkha.

    My question to u is, whatever is taught in th quran, is that all that is being manifested in real life or is it beyond that?? Now this is genuinely a question, because I dont know. My friend is a practicing muslim, but I see her doing it very differently from other muslim women....so what gives?

    Peace!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:37 PM  

  • **It does not mean that the implication is that all women are forced/do it against their will or that Islam is the culprit!!

    Ty Chandni! That was my point too.

    And the fact that it's quite impossible to have a civil discussion with some ppl, w.o. being called prejudiced and unbiased and w.o. them feeling upset is the biggest mystery to me!


    Keshi.

    By Blogger Keshi, at 9:36 PM  

  • Exactly....that post was only to pin-point and question the fanatics who want to supress the females of that particular religion. And we all know we hv numerous jackasses who r constantly on a look to find such an opportunity as this to bash some particular individuals on blogs, so be it, that doesn't means that the post was targeted to demean a particular religion. Instead of disecting the whole issue we shud hv let keshi and sebia sort out the misunderstandings between them instead of providing a platform to that so called section of crowd who u think were not sensible enough to debate that issue to shit on both of'em.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:45 PM  

  • I have shunned many a blogs, because they choose to have such ignorant deiscussions, its sad to see you too joined that bandwagon jack.

    My e-mail id is listed in my profile, i think we can discuss this there, as i am the last person to discuss such matters on blogs, I really mean it, I am disgusted and sad that you chose to write about it :)

    By Blogger Kusum Rohra, at 11:01 PM  

  • Thanks South!

    btw Kusum, discussing such issues on the net is the ideal place...this is where we get som any ppl from all over the world with so many diffent views...and this is where ppl will speak out without having to feel bad abt it cos we r all behind nics...whereas in reality some ppl would feel a bit awkward to discuss.

    why do we have to be ashamed to discuss something openly and something thats become such a world issue? That is FANATICISM.

    Keshi.

    By Blogger Keshi, at 11:09 PM  

  • ever heard that "modernism is rubbish" :) i really hate that term! it's an excuse to be ill-mannered, rude and uncultured.

    the rest of the discussion....i think your blogger friends said enough.

    By Blogger Dalicia, at 11:21 PM  

  • Smz:

    Thnx for ur comments……..it isn’t tht I am against ppl raising such issues or their comments if done with right intent and spirit, but when ppl end up saying things just to ridicule and make mockery it hurts, and trust me I wud feel equally bad if any one did tht against any other religion.


    Keshi:

    ‘it's ok that it seems u have changed ur opinion from what u stated first in that post of mine.’
    Now on what grounds u say tht ??
    And I have written here to begin with it wasn’t ur post but the comments their in which made me write this……abusive, abt throwing ppl out, killing machines and war, those kind of things………



    Uttara:

    Hmmmmm ;)))



    Chandni:

    ‘whenever a discussion like this starts why is it assumed that its an attack on another's religion??’
    I don’t know if u read the comments there in, while for one I had no problem with the post, even though I don’t think it was entirely correct.

    ‘Why is it that when you have to defend islam, you have to point out all that is not right with hinduism??’
    Don’t u think u being a lil bit harsh….where have I said tht….there was just a line which said
    “I think the Hindu women face a lot of problems too. Its more due to the situations people are in, the kind of environment in which we exist.” All tht meant was tht women from any religion face problems because of the society they live in……..
    The holy book provides a broad platform, for what is right and what is expected of a person. And people follow it in varying degrees the way they see it right…..some pray 5 times a day….fast for those 30 days…….for one I pray may be 2-3 times a month only …some say keeping a beard, wearing a cap is a must but I don’t….the way I see it, the religion all it wants tht ur a good human being……..

    By Blogger Jackal, at 11:42 PM  

  • Jackal no probs mate :)

    *****.like fasting in ramzan etc but then those guys are big idiots.....a lot of gals dont wear nythig underneath there veil in those countries and all those sheiks the so called defenders of faith..come night are they are in Paris doing all those things which they continuosly preach againts during the day..........

    thats what u said in my post...and thats what Im talking abt too. And now why this post trashing the ppl who commented there...to my knowledge no one abused Islam there...all they trashed were the fanatics. Why wud a good muslim be affected by that then?


    besides...the anonymous no-name gutless boy up there wrote the following notes abt me:

    *****Keshi has always been a dickhead in the way she writes her posts...she writes them for the pure sake of reaching 100 comments. She thinks she is being thought-provoking but rather she comes across as an ignorant fool who is desperately seeking to hold her ground in the blogworld.


    And thats not freedom of speech...thats abuse and u chose to leave it in ur comments. I have no probs with that cos I dun believe a word that loser is saying. My point is if I didnt get affected by some person calling me 'dickhead', why r u and Sebz so upset abt the fanatics I posted abt?

    Keshi.

    By Blogger Keshi, at 11:54 PM  

  • Anyways I wish to conclude this never-ending debate..hehe...u have every right to say what u feel...but its also good to know what others have to say too (and Sebz has taken that right off us).

    Anyways lets just agree to disagree without being upset at each other.

    Have a good day!

    Keshi.

    By Blogger Keshi, at 12:05 AM  

  • keshi is trash

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:40 AM  

  • Southpaw:

    ‘that post was only to pin-point and question the fanatics who want to suppress the females of that particular religion’
    I did not have any problem with that

    ‘we shud hv let keshi and sebia sort out the misunderstandings between them instead of providing a platform’
    this is absolutely baseless accusation, I saw sebia’s post only after I had published mine and this ain’t no platform provided to any one..it s just how I felt about some of those comments………


    kusum:

    I was too ……..its something I wasn’t responsible for…..it was just that some of the comments there were in bad taste…but it seems to have gone way beyond tht……


    Elaine:

    “ever heard that "modernism is rubbish" :)”
    now where is this coming from…surely not me……I just said tht modernism isn’t just about the kind of clothes you wear……….

    By Blogger Jackal, at 1:43 AM  

  • Phew! I read thru all these & feel better not to comment! Anycase, as long as each individual is happy the way she/he is...it shdnt concern anyone else. Religion is probably just an umbrella where they take shelter. Also by all of us discussing these issues, I wonder if there is ever gonna be a change (for the better, ofcourse).

    By Blogger Has to be me, at 1:49 AM  

  • ****this is absolutely baseless accusation, I saw sebia’s post only after I had published mine and this ain’t no platform provided to any one..it s just how I felt about some of those comments………****I always thought u were quite sensible and intelligent but calling it a baseless accusations proves me terribly wrong. u know it very well that this has surely provided a platform to those so-called senseless commenters to thrash both keshi and sebia. Anyways i hv wasted enough of my energy out here...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:37 AM  

  • keshi needs a REAL life and REAL friends.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:06 PM  

  • I am also for veil by choice only. Some people are tagging it with the requirement to be a Muslim. They even call them bad names if they don't follow it. Why such an obsession with women dress code? Why so much emphasis put on this one issue? Andly mostly by men.

    You are wrong in saying that most women do it by choice if people can harass Sania Mirza in a secular country. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1219580.cms
    Imagine what they do to the women who are stuck in Muslim countries. It’s a conspiracy against us to deprive us from main stream society.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:51 PM  

  • Here is a Muslim Women take on it

    http://shabanamir.com/koonj/?p=125

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:52 PM  

  • You are right. I truely believe that people hide under the name of religion and that there is good and bad in everybodys culture and religion and its up to each one to know what to take from it that would make our lives beter.

    By Blogger starry, at 11:54 AM  

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